Curse

Curse You · Jul 16, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Or the more simple solution to just make ranger expertise affect only ranger skills. Doesnt affect any other profession, which is the concern for some regarding the necro skills in question. Since fast casting is a relativly moot point here now, i really do not see where the big problem in the cross class parity is here. Oh yeah, bigger energy pool does not equate out to faster regeneration. That regen only starts to catch up to the effect expertise has passivly after sacrificing a skill slot and other drawbacks associated with ether prodigy. Strength with dagger skills is just silly anyway, since armor penetration only affects the base weapon damage and is weaker than the 15&20% mods on top of being energy based on a energy starved character. Better off just spamming irresistable blow.

Well good to see at least one person shares my opinion. I have a ranger, I've read what expertise says, and I know that Anet stated that expertise was working as intended.

But, think of it on a logical sense. How can a RANGER be an expert in blood magic? How can they be an expert in anything that isn't related to bows or the wilderness? That just makes no sense.

TwinRaven · Jul 16, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

The moment i started killing touch rangers with a pet build...(I'm a ranger and often play the touchie route)...I decided anyone who can't take one out, slow one down or get away from one is PATHETIC...Think about it: my PET kills them with regularity. I run a build that causes conditions from a distance and interrupts = dead touchie. Can we please stop saying they are overpowered? If I killed you in Aspenwood, post below...don't be embarrassed...

As for the above post....don't confuse Expertise with being an Expert....blood magic tops out at 12 for a non-necro....Expertise only reduces energy cost for the skill. A necro can get up to 16 blood magic...so the ranger is by no means an expert in blood magic, but simply takes advantage of the low cost of using a secondary skill. this comes into play with MULTIPLE ranger builds including the ever-popular Bunny Thumper.

In your final comment, you left out Beast Mastery as something a ranger can be Expert in....which by the way, I have at 16 and use to kill touch rangers (and assassins, monks, warriors, etc...) If it all makes no sense to you...you obviously don't play a ranger.

Numa Pompilius · Jul 16, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

I made a touch ranger and went to RA. Ended up in a team with another touchie, one interrupt ranger, and a wammo-with-mending. All of them good players, but with no monk we still shouldn't have had a chance.

16 straight wins, most of them flawless.

In team arena we flawlessed a guild team with two monks.

We finally lost to a guild team, but it was a long match which could have gone either way. I think if we hadn't been getting so cocky, talking about what happens after 20 consecutive, we might have won.

I'm sure most of you can kill one touch ranger, but it was very clear that even players in organized teams had no clue what to do when _two_ touch rangers were chasing them, while their monk was getting knocked around by a warrior, and an interrupter made their casters life miserable.

As for beast mastery, I frequently used enemy pets (and spirits) to top up my health when I was getting smacked about.

IMO, after one day of playing, the weakness of touch rangers is the energy. Even at 16 expertise and using OoB, a touch ranger *will* run out of energy and have to wait. Diversion hardly slowed me down, but energy burn and other types of energy theft were damn annoying.

All in all, a very strong build which, contrary to what has been let on in this thread, few players have effective counters against if they face more than one.

Priest Of Sin · Jul 16, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

THE BEST PURPOSE FOR A TOUCHER:

Green Farming. Boss out in the open? Touchers are almost pure self-sufficient, so, they'll have no problem. 14 Unges Of The Oni and counting.

Ole Man Bourbon · Jul 16, 2006, 09:51 AM // 09:51

All it takes is a team with 2 decent anti-touch ranger skills, which are common, and it's game over.

Siddious · Jul 16, 2006, 10:15 AM // 10:15

These toucher threads are everywhere at the moment. Can't you guys just learn to counter them.
Every proffesion has a counter to them:

WARRIORS - Knockdown, Crippling.
RANGERS - Degen, Crippling/Snares, Traps.
ELEMENTALIST - Knockdown, Snares, Degen.
NECRO - Degen.
MESMER - Degen, Snares, Energy Denial, Diversion, Blackout.
MONK - Healing.
ASSASIN - Crippling.
RITUALIST - Healing, Knockdown, Snares

See that! Plenty of counters, and I'm sure I missed plenty out.

Xanthar · Jul 16, 2006, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Well, we all know by now that touch rangers can be defeated, but the problem seems to be that most players still are not employing countertactics. In order to render touch rangers obsolete more people will have to bring snare hexes and farm touchies in the arenas

Numa, personally I think that your winning series was not that strange. Just getting four good players in one group with any functional build will get you 10 wins in RA - Skill will show. The wins in TA are harder to discount, but again: You had a high DPS build and good players. It is the makings of a successful TA group in itself.

Interestingly, I have a converse anecdote where my RA team went on to claim 5 wins in TA before dissolving, one against a three-toucher-one-monk team. As I was playing the monk, I had a train of touchers following me as I kited throughout the match but we managed a flawless anyway - In large part because we had a cripshot ranger. Sometimes, that's all it takes

JoeKnowMo · Jul 16, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Didn't wanna re-post since I posted in another thread. Yes, I know, there's like a bazillion threads about touchies.

I tried to sum things up about touches as best I could. Check it out:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3072648&page=4

waiver · Jul 16, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

lv16 curse necro can own touchies.

0mar · Jul 16, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

The only thing overpowered about touch rangers is the stupidity rampant in RA.

Curse You · Jul 16, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinRaven

As for the above post....don't confuse Expertise with being an Expert....blood magic tops out at 12 for a non-necro....Expertise only reduces energy cost for the skill. A necro can get up to 16 blood magic...so the ranger is by no means an expert in blood magic, but simply takes advantage of the low cost of using a secondary skill. this comes into play with MULTIPLE ranger builds including the ever-popular Bunny Thumper.

In your final comment, you left out Beast Mastery as something a ranger can be Expert in....which by the way, I have at 16 and use to kill touch rangers (and assassins, monks, warriors, etc...) If it all makes no sense to you...you obviously don't play a ranger.

Well my original idea that many have ignored is to make all NON-ATTACK skills that are NOT ranger ones unaffected by expertise. That way the thumpers can thump, the R/A can assassinate, and the Touch Rangers can go find a better build.

Oh and sorry I left out beast mastery, I never really touch it. I find relying entirely on a seperate being doesn't interest me much, you're too prone to being demolished by having the enemy kill your pet, then just jump you.

As a last point. Please then explain to me how expertise has any reason to lower the cost of a person's skills? Words usually have meanings behind them.

makosi · Jul 16, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest Of Sin

THE BEST PURPOSE FOR A TOUCHER:

Green Farming. Boss out in the open? Touchers are almost pure self-sufficient, so, they'll have no problem. 14 Unges Of The Oni and counting.

Amen. The touchable boss list is ever growing. Special thanks to Cultist Rajazan.

Shadow of Light · Jul 17, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

I don't like touch rangers (same as I don't like IWAY

), but in the beginning it was because I didn't understand how they worked or how to counter them. After doing a little reading up on their skills... well... let's just say I danced on the corpse of every touch ranger I diversioned to death last night.

Mera Regila · Jul 17, 2006, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siddious

These toucher threads are everywhere at the moment. Can't you guys just learn to counter them.
Every proffesion has a counter to them:

WARRIORS - Knockdown, Crippling.
RANGERS - Degen, Crippling/Snares, Traps.
ELEMENTALIST - Knockdown, Snares, Degen.
NECRO - Degen.
MESMER - Degen, Snares, Energy Denial, Diversion, Blackout.
MONK - Healing.
ASSASIN - Crippling.
RITUALIST - Healing, Knockdown, Snares

See that! Plenty of counters, and I'm sure I missed plenty out.

Wars also, outdamage and pwn with bulls strike+sprint while they're running, and shock when they get up, constant kd till they're dead.
Rits can pound with spirits that use interrupts and damage at the same time.
Rangers can use Distracting Shot, most basic interrupt skill ever.

Just thought i'd ad those to your already impressive list.

Mera Regila · Jul 17, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

Didn't wanna re-post since I posted in another thread. Yes, I know, there's like a bazillion threads about touchies.

I tried to sum things up about touches as best I could. Check it out:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3072648&page=4

One SLIGHT problem with one of your theories on the post. Cripshot Rangers CAN hit them with their arrows due to the fact that Cripshot cannot be blocked or evaded, negating zoujin's haste, even if they manage to avoid one through kiting, another will come in one second, leaving the touch open for serious punishment.

Both of these stances have recharge of 30 seconds, so you cant have constant stance evasion, it doesn't work like that, if this were so rangers of anything other than cripshot would fall before them, which they dont. Other than that your post was good, and enlightening.

Numa Pompilius · Jul 17, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

I'd suggest anyone interested in, or annoyed about, touch rangers to create one and try it out in arena.

shardfenix · Jul 17, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

I figured it out. As soon as people find a way to abuse a build, arenanet knows about it. Howwever, they give it 1 season to be playable after the season it's abused in. Touch rangers will be nerfed next season, along with assassins and apostasy and rit spirits.

Seissor · Jul 17, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

they are annoying, not because they are overpowered, but because every tom dick and harry bring one in to play. Makes for uninteresting gameplay. Still cant deny that I love sneaking up on then and distracting shot/savage shot their skills.

frojack · Jul 17, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Ritualists counter touchers lol. Yeah, if you spec out in a mesmer secondary. Healing is not a counter for touchers, it only prolongs the enevitable. You WILL run out of energy before they do. Plus, it's not like your doing them any harm is it?
The simple fact is there is very little a ritualist can do against a toucher. Spiris are way too vunerable to the same attacks (oh sorry, touches) that said ranger used against yourself. By the time you've even finished bringing one to this world, you'll be dead already. So yeah. Mesmer secondary.

Anyways, pardon the interruption. Carry on. I'm sure Anet will enjoy continuing to ignore you all

.

Sily Wabbit · Jul 18, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

I suppose Wanderlust + Dissonace would work on a touch, second he uses Whirling Kite, seens you running and hits Dodge, dead touchie.

not to mention all the siht with channeling you could do with him KD'd/Interrupted.